Qf 17 pounder vs 88 driver

The ordnance quickfiring 17pounder or just 17pdr was a 76. The idea of fitting a 17pounder gun into a sherman tank had initially been. The codriver was removed to give space for the ammunition. The 17pdr sp achilles was a british variant of the american m10 tank destroyer armed with the british ordnance qf 17 pounder highvelocity 76. The sabot round was the revolutionary breakthrough, not the 17 pounder. The was first produced in 1904, along with the smaller pdr field gun, saw. Concerns over the appearance of the german tiger tank led to the british to try the 17pdr mk i on. Hi guys, because of the recent addition of the type 62 dragon and the rumor that german lights will be coming in update 2. The 17 pounder turret was rated as in between the 76mm and 90mm tanks in terms of force of effort required, and with the least amount of free play.

I think its clear that the problem is that the 17 pounder was a quick and dirty install on a early turret. This was trialed in the arethusaclass light cruisers hms arethusa and undaunted, but did not enter full service, being replaced instead by a larger weapon, the qf 2 pdr. Its greater effective range, compared with the 2 pounder, countered the german tactic of standing off and destroy. It formed the backbone of the royal field artillery during the war, and was produced in large numbers. This consisted of mounting a the quick firing qf 6 pounder gun behind the drivers position on its original carriage. Large scale conversions were dropped, due to the adoption of the 17 pounder. For its time, the tog 2 held a formidable armament suite consisting of the 76. The driver and 5 man gun crew all rode in the fighting equipment and 112 cartridges and an equivalent number of he, smoke and ap shells could be carried. This threat was recognised even before its predecessor the 6 pounder was introduced. How effective was the ww2 25 pounder field gun at anti. It was introduced into service just before the war started, combining highangle and directfire, relatively high rates of fire, and a reasonably lethal shell in a highly mobile piece.

The 17 pounder was developed to counter the threat posed by heavy german armour. Mark iv, also known as the ac iv thunderbolt or the ac iv sentinel, is a premium rank iii british medium tank on the british tree with a battle rating of 5. If they had spent the time and engineering resources to do a new proper turret with new proper mounting for the 17 pounder it would have been much better than it was. The ordnance qf 25 pounder, or more simply 25 pounder or 25 pdr, was the major british field gun and howitzer during the second world war, possessing a 3. This was introduced for the 6 pdr and 17 pdr in 1944 and the apds shot the 17 pdr became the most powerful tank killer in europe in 194445. Especially considering their abandonment of the 75mm gun for the two tank gun versions of their 88 aa gun. It was used by british forces in all the main theatres, and by. The 25 pounder was developed from the 18 pounder howitzer used in the trench warfare of ww1. He is talking about the tigers 88mm and not the king tigers i think, viper. Having said that, the bigger calibres fired much more effective he shells so were better for generalpurpose use. Along with ww2 came also heavier armour, artillery often found themselves attacked by german tanks.

The main armament of the sherman firefly was the ordnance quickfiring 17pounder. The 88mm in all of its many forms was no where near the best anti tank gun at gun of ww2, heck it. A good example of this is the ordnance qf 25pdr short aust mk i on. A shaped charge antitank shell was under development in canada, but the introduction of the threeinch 76. In a rush to get the gun into action, the early versions were mounted 25 pounder carriages and these were known as 17 25 pounders. In the western desert the 25 pounder was used as a stop gap anti tank weapon in 1941, pending deliveries of the 6 pounder antitank. Black prince a43 by 1943, the churchill was the most heavily armored tank in british service, and it was seen as an adequate response to the german tiger and panther if rearmed with a more potent weapon, the 17 pounder. However, they want to use this modified m10 tank as a howitzer rather than a battle tank. The ordnance quickfiring 17 pounde r or j ust 17 pdr was a 76. The driver sat below the gun and to the right and when firing, the vehicle. The quick firing qf 18 pounder was the principle field gun of the british army in world war one. The 88, im talking of the anti air version, which was converted to that. Designed and manufactured by vickersarmstrongs, 655 were produced between march 1943 and may 1945.

The sherman firefly was a tank used by the united kingdom and some commonwealth and. The 17pdr sp achilles officially 17 pounder, selfpropelled, achilles was a british variant of the american m10 tank destroyer armed with the british ordnance qf 17 pounder highvelocity 76. What made the 17 pounder 75 mm gun on the sherman firefly so. Was the british 17 pounder gun better than the german 88. However due to an abundance of 122mm guns, the russians mounted it instead of the 100s in the stalins and other tank destroyers.

Conversion of british gun caliber pounder to millimeters. Crew, 4 commander, gunner, loader radiooperator, driver. Qf 17 pdr, ap, 884 ms 2,900 fts, 200, 190, 175, 160, 147, 5, 124, 114, 105, 88, 74. The driver and 5 man gun crew all rode in the fighting equipment and 112. Used with the apds shot, it was capable of defeating all but the thickest armour on german tanks. Was the qf17 pounder really the most powerful antitank gun in ww2, as wikipedia states. The 17 pounder as fitted to comet was referred to as a 77mm, but i suspect that was, as mentioned above, to distinguish it from the septic 7. When ww2 demanded more firepower, the 18 pr barrels were drilled up to fit a 25 pr round. It was used as an antitank gun on its own carriage, as well as equipping a number of british tanks. After the second world war, the uk replaced ap shot with a hesh shell. The ordnance qf 25 pounder was the standard artillery piece used by british commonwealth forces during world war ii. The main armament of the achilles was the ordnance qf 17 pounder, a gun. You can help us keep flightaware free by allowing ads from flightaware. The 17 pounder is very good weapon but i dont believe it classifies as the best at gun in ww2, for several factors.

The argument that the 17 pounder was the best gun of the war is just not founded. The raahc has assembled a team to deliver a world war 1 quick firing 18 pounder gun and ammunition limber complete with horse team and gun detachment. It is actually overperforming in rate of fire compare to reality, ingame you get a sustained rate of fire just over 10 rpm when maxed 5. Designed and manufactured by vickersarmstrongs, it used the valentine mk i tank chassis and fitted with an qf 17 pounder. This left the firefly as the only tank available with firepower superior to the qf 75 mm.

Designed to be an improvement over the world war iera 18 pounder, the 25 pounder saw service in all theaters and was a favorite with gun crews. Raahc royal australian artillery historical company. The archer is a twoseater vehicle with the driver operating the main gun, the qf 17pdr and a coaxial mg. Pages in category qf 17 pounder this category contains only the following page. The ordnance qf 17 pdr antitank gun was a vast upgrade from the preceding qf 2 pdr and qf 6 pdr gun designs each system was sonamed based on the weight of their respective projectiles. Im here to remind people that although all in all the german 88 was probably all in. The gun saw service in every theatre of the great war. The ordnance qf 18 pounder, or simply 18 pounder gun, was the standard british empire field gun of the first world warera. It is approximately 350 inchpounds out of balance with a round of apcbc in the chamber. Wight of the two rounds should not differ by much and the qf 17 pounder even has the heavier projectile. Between 2,100 and 2,300 vehicles of all modifications were built from 1944 through 1945. Archer self propelled 17 pdr, valentine, mk i, archer in italy, winter 194445.

They then plan to modify the m10 to add the 17 pounder, as they already do with the sherman who becomes the firefly, in order to participate in the battle of normandy against the german tanks present in the area. With the exception of the us 76mm all of these could penetrate 200mm or more of armour at 500 meters. This page details the development and operational history of the sherman firefly medium tank, m4a4 tank destroyer medium tank including technical specifications and pictures. Media in category qf 17 pounder the following 37 files are in this category, out of 37 total. The guns were code named pheasant officially known as 17pdr mk2 and proved. Qf17 pounder ammunition types ground forces discussion. Designed as the successor to the british qf 6pounder, the 17pounder was the most powerful british tank gun of the war, and one of the most powerful of any nationality, being able to penetrate more armour than the 8.

Also figuring out why the sub caliber ammo was inaccurate crap would be. On the left is a 75mm shell for the sherman, on the right is a 17pdr round. Armed with a 17 pounder gun, it has a high firepower for the battle rating it is in, able to effectively fight any other tanks at the battle rating. If 17 pounder barely penetrates a target damage might be small, 88 has he filler that detonates which makes it more dangerous. The 17 pounder antitank gun like the 2 pounder the 17 pounder was originally planned to be a tank gun, in april 1941 the question of a weapon to replace the 6 pounder was debated at a meeting by the design department and the artillery and tank branches of both the war office and the ministry of supply. Tiger fired he at 810 ms which is relatively high velocity, good at hitting vertical targets.

Crew, 5 commander, loader, gunner, loaders assistant, driver. The self propelled 17pdr, valentine, mk i, archer was a world war ii british tank destroyer. History of the m10 achilles tank during the battle of normandy. Part of a network of sites that includes, globalfirepower, a data driven property used in ranking the top military powers of the. The 17 pounder is very good weapon but i dont believe it classifies as the best at. It was the most effective allied antitank gun of the war. It was used in northwest europe and italy during the war. Equipment used by the artillery regiments desert rats. The self propelled 17pdr, valentine, mk i, archer was a british self propelled antitank gun of the second world war based on the valentine infantry tank chassis fitted with an ordnance qf 17 pounder gun. Several shots of the officers inspecting british 17 pounders field guns. We work hard to keep our advertising relevant and unobtrusive to create a great experience. Racks of ammunition were placed either side of the gun.